What type of an existence will a child who dies enter into in the future when there is a resurrection of the dead?

What type of an existence 

will a child who dies enter into in the future

when there is a resurrection of the dead?

The first question we really need to ask ourselves in this very important discussion is the following: What type of an existence will a child who dies before the age of accountability enter into in the future when there is a resurrection of the dead (this is understood in light of the fact that those who die are currently dead and not living in a state of disembodied consciousness)? Now, it might seem strange to say it this way, but there is, in fact, more than one choice. If you don’t see this as a possibility, bear with me.

Now, let us look at a key text which is going to be the beginning of our journey. It is a text we all know very well and it concerns the story of David and Bathsheba and what the Bible records concerning the death of their first child. I don’t need to rehearse the whole story as we are familiar with it, but I do want to focus on one specific issue. Let us look now at II Samuel 12:16-23:

“David therefore sought God on behalf of the child. And David fasted and went in and lay all night on the ground. 17 And the elders of his house stood beside him, to raise him from the ground, but he would not, nor did he eat food with them. 18 On the seventh day the child died. And the servants of David were afraid to tell him that the child was dead, for they said, “Behold, while the child was yet alive, we spoke to him, and he did not listen to us. How then can we say to him the child is dead? He may do himself some harm.” 19 But when David saw that his servants were whispering together, David understood that the child was dead. And David said to his servants, “Is the child dead?” They said, “He is dead.” 20 Then David arose from the earth and washed and anointed himself and changed his clothes. And he went into the house of the Lord and worshiped. He then went to his own house. And when he asked, they set food before him, and he ate. 21 Then his servants said to him, “What is this thing that you have done? You fasted and wept for the child while he was alive; but when the child died, you arose and ate food.” 22 He said, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept, for I said, ‘Who knows whether the Lord will be gracious to me, that the child may live?’ 23 But now he is dead. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me.” (ESV)

Now, let us understand what this text says. David says that one day, he seemingly will see this child again. This is the idea one gets in reading this text when we consider the attitude and actions of David. He seems to have taken a very practical view of this issue and went on with his life with quite a strong level of faith. He did not exhibit major additional grief beyond what is referenced here in this before the child passed away. Why? As he said, he understood that the life of that child on earth was over, but he believed that he would see that child again in some way.

     The text does not say precisely when this will happen. This text is pointed out by scores of commentators and exegetes talking about this issue and they use this text to show (among other texts that are used to build an argument) that little children will be raised from the dead to immortal life.

Yes, this is exactly what many scholars and theologians teach that this text means, but I have to ask: Is this what this text teaches at all? Simply put, to say that this text teaches that small children are going to inherit immortal life is reading something into this text which is not necessarily there at all. It only says that David will "go to him."  [They don’t normally go into any details about who these children will be? How will they develop memories? Who will they be as adult thinking people considering they never had any experiences to remember in the first place?]

Now, the Bible also makes it clear that at this time in history only Christ has immortality (I Timothy 6:16 & I Corinthians 15:23)) and “no man has ascended to heaven.” (John 3:13) Yes, it does say that David will see that baby again (who lived to be only a few days old), but there is absolutely no indication that proves in any way that that baby is going to be raised to immortal life! Let’s be clear and reasonable. The baby either is going to be raised from the dead to mortal or immortal life. There are really not any other options that make any practical sense. It is one or the other. This is definitely the case because there is no indication in the Bible, for example, that human beings, made in the image of God, will be perhaps in the future transformed in some way to become angels.

What we mean here exactly is: Will this baby be capable of dying again by being raised to mortal life or will the baby be raised from the dead to an eternal existence? These really are the only two choices available. We will continue this discussion in further posts. 

Assumptions Made On This Blog - Help To Orient You In Our Discussion

 Assumptions Made On This Blog - Help To Orient You In Our Discussion

I've been getting myself a little bit more organized in my writing style of late and a good place to start in any discussion is how we orient ourselves to the discussion. 

I call this my 'Assumptions' page, which will help you see how I approach this (or any other) Scriptural discussion. I think this is quite important because it will help you understand in a kind of overall way a little bit more of how I think about certain key details of Biblical interpretation.

This page is also designed to be a work in progress. It may be updated tomorrow. Oh LORD, help me that it is! 

My father (who was a Bible scholar) always taught me to grow in grace and knowledge. It is a command from God. We are called to grow and learn.

My father used to put these verses in many of his publications as a guide and I totally agree that they are so important for all of us:

"But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus

Christ" (II Peter 3:18).

"That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being

fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God"

(Colossians 1:10).

"The path of the just is as a shining light, that shineth more and more

unto the perfect day" (Proverbs 4:18).

 I loved it when my dad would say: "I hope that I know something about the LORD tomorrow that I do not know today." I totally feel this way too!

So let's look at some of my Assumptions for this blog (and in general).

1. The focus of this blog will be seeking to find answers to the question about what is the destiny of particularly young children who pass away before the age of accountability. We will not be really focusing on other unrelated issues. 

2. We will be keeping our orientation to what my friend Professor James Tabor calls an overall 'Hebraic' one. This is directly opposed to what I might call an orientation or tendency in the Western world to have received its Christian theological foundation from Greco-Roman civilization. There is nothing wrong with Greco-Roman civilization, but when it comes to the Bible I acknowledge that my home is where the home of the Mother Church is in mind, heart and soul: In Jerusalem and firmly in Hebraic culture. 

3. When I speak about Scripture, it must be understood that I take a particular view of the Bible. I use all versions to help me better understand the Word of God, but my constant guide seeks to link the Bible to its more original prophetical and apostolic dress. Find out more here about what this means. - http://samuelmartin.blogspot.co.il/2011/08/normal-0-false-false-false.html - This post talks about the original manuscript order of the New Testament. I also follow the original order of the Hebrew Bible which Jesus mentioned in Luke 24:44,45. For more information, see my father’s book “Restoring the Original Bible” or see www.originalbible.com. I would strongly urge a review of these resources as they will help you understand this key element of my interpretive style. 

4. I think it very important to believe that many of the questions we are going to ask and seek to answer on this blog were questions that have been important for people since time began. Since human beings arrived on this earth, young children (and others) have passed away at young ages and people have wondered and sought out information on their destinies. I have no doubt in my mind that these types of questions were asked of people like Peter, James and John and especially St. Paul and I think that since they often did not make it precisely clear in every detail in some of their writings, we really have to study their teachings carefully and extract what they believed from them. I think they had quite a lot to say on this issue if we have "eyes to see" what they said and how they meant it. Often times, some of the information is terse and brief, but that does not make it irrelevant or not authoritative for coming to some firm conclusions on what we believe. I believe that the basic answers that we want to know about this subject are waiting for us in the pages of that good old book: The Holy Bible. Having said that, one thing we must point out is that whatever ideas we do propose, they must be harmonious with all of the Biblical information and basically compatible with its teachings and overall spirit.

5. I will have much more to say about on this blog about what I believe that the Holy Scriptures teach on the precise current status of all those who are dead (I believe that the dead are indeed dead and not currently in a conscious state at all). I think this is a fundamental issue which is quite important to this discussion. 

6. I believe it important to believe and understand that mankind and angels are distinct beings. I do not believe that after death children somehow are transformed into angels or other beings. 

7. On this blog, we will not be venturing outside of the Holy Scriptures to consider non-biblical speculations about the destiny of mankind, the after-life, the state of the dead or other topics. We will remain and stay committed to a precise and specific anchoring in the Holy Scriptures. 

8. It must be understood that the Holy Scriptures, by their design, discuss two different time periods of the after-life. One is a millennial age which comprises 1,000 earth years as referenced in many texts. (Rev. 20:5; Psalm 90:4; II Peter 3:8) The other is a period of time after the 1,000 years ends. Some of the information that we find in certain sections of the Bible has traditionally been interpreted with certain Biblical time periods, like, for example, the fourth book of the Psalms (from Psalm 90-106) being oriented to the millennial age. Because of that, some of the information in these sections of Scripture can be helpful in better understanding what is happening in those periods. 

9. One of the key points we will be paying attention to will be the use of Hebrew or Greek terms that describe various phases of life of particularly children. We will be sticking with the general understanding of these terms throughout the Bible and will only make interpretive modifications to what certain terms mean if we have a compelling reason to do so from Scripture. For more information on this point, see the first chapter of my book where I discuss the various Bible definitions for a number of terms for 'child' in the Hebrew Bible in particular: download it free here - whynottrainachild.com/2013/06/22/download-martins-book or http://www.endhittingusa.org/resources/sam-martin-s-biblical-studies-about-spanking.

10. A final point is the following. We have to admit that this subject is mysterious. It is subject to interpretation and we have to admit absolutely that we could be wrong in our interpreting. However, this is where we are going to seek a broad and thorough examination of the Biblical texts. We are also going to rely on interpretive tools which themselves are biblically oriented and authorized in Scripture itself. So, while errors will certainly be a part of our experience (especially on this blog), we are going to ensure that a robust and comprehensive examination of the information that is available will be undertaken with reasonable, simple and logical interpretations of the Biblical data, ideas and philosophy. 

So, let me know if you have any questions or feedback. Thanks so much, 

Samuel Martin

Jerusalem Israel 

Posted - December 17 2014  

My Own Family Experience With Child Loss

My Own Family Experience With Child Loss

My wife and I lost three children between our two girls (I have a 12 and an eight year old). My youngest daughter, Christine, we consider a miracle because after being tested medically every possible way, my wife and I were told that there was no known medical reason for the losses and just attributed the failed pregnancies to fate. 

After these sad experiences, I began to think more on this subject. I remembered that, in fact, I had an uncle who I never knew because he died in the 1930’s after living only two days. His name was Otis Martin.

I can remember my dad talking about his brother, who he never knew. He used to mention Uncle Otis from time to time in his ministerial teachings on occasion when it was relevant. Dad often would talk about his mother and how she spoke of Otis just as if he was one of her three children who lived and grew up, but Uncle Otis did not live and grow up.

So, I began to think more on this issue and I began to ask questions. I also began an intense study and here I began to develop an outline based on some of the teachings I had learned from my father when he was alive. Some of what you will read in this blog comes from the mind of Ernest L. Martin, who was my dad and my teacher to which I have added my own thoughts and proposed ideas.

What I have added to some of his ideas are what I would call a touch of pastoral ministry. This is because my father, while he was a serious Bible scholar, he was not a pastoral minister. He approached the Bible in a very respectful but academic way.

That does not mean he was cold hearted and did not wish to minister to the souls of people, but he just was not built for that type of ministry. So, when I began my own ministerial work, I promised myself that I was going to use the things I had learned more in a pastoral sense. To this I have added what I call my specific and practical approach. I am interested in addressing specific questions that people have and to focus on answers which have a practical application in helping to better the daily lives and circumstances of all people. 

I have tried to do this because I believe there are so many people out there in the world who are asking questions about their loved ones, especially their own departed children, born or unborn. There is so much pain that people, especially mothers, are carrying because they just do not understand or have good answers from the LORD on this issue and it disquiets their souls.

I have read post after post from mother’s who have lost children in particular and they don’t know 100% down deep in their souls where those dear children are and what will happen to them. They know that God is love, but we have so much cultural baggage and so much wrong teaching and isolated text grabbing which many well intentioned people present as God’s truth which just adds to the confusion and lack of comfort.

I hope in some small way, this blog answers some questions about the future of all of our loved ones, especially those little ones who never saw light or whose time on earth was so short.

My father, when he was alive, urged me to take the things I learned from him (and others) and build on them. I am seeking to do that on this blog. I know my father would be pleased with this approach because it meets a spiritual need out there: a need for hope for our dear departed loved ones, especially those, like my own Uncle Otis, whose time under the sun was cut short. 

So, let the discussion begin.

A new hopeful blog seeking to answer questions about loved ones who we have lost before their times

A new hopeful blog seeking to answer questions

 about loved ones who we've lost before their times

Dear friends,

Samuel Martin here. Many of you will know me from another blog I write at www.biblechild.com or www.samuelmartin.blogspot.com. 

I am quite active in the area of family violence through my book "Thy Rod and Thy Staff, They Comfort Me: Christians and the Spanking Controversy" (available here for free - whynottrainachild.com/2013/06/22/download-martins-book/)

I have started this blog because I had been working on a new book under the title: "Infant/Child Salvation: God’s Redemptive Plan For Children Who Die Before Knowing the Message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ." 

I've slowly been working on this book and making some progress over last summer, but just a couple of days ago, a thought occurred to me. What am I working on a new book for on such an important subject when if I were to just start blogging about this subject and get my ideas out there, the opportunity to learn from others and see our collective knowledge multiplied would make the whole experience so much richer?

So, I just immediately decided to abandon the whole book idea completely. 

So, I will be blogging about it instead. 

Not only will I be blogging about it, but I will be inviting others to talk about their experiences and what they know about this most important subject. 

I may even ask some scholars to contribute to this blog. We will see on that subject in due course. 

But in any case, this blog is going to have two simple goals. 

1. To provide hope for those in need of knowledge on this most difficult of subjects

2. To provide healing for those who are hurting

To do this, we are going to be digging deeply into the Word of the Living God, the Holy Bible. 

So, over the coming days, weeks and months, we will be getting started on this most important of subjects. 

I am asking for your participation. Please feel free to share anything with me. I am very transparent about how I operate and how I share materials that I get from others. I always keep things private and in close confidence. I am interested in putting your work on this blog with your agreement and full participation. Let's be in touch.

I will definitely be having some very powerful stories on this blog which will be working towards the goals of this blog. So get ready to be blessed. 

I am thankful to be surrounded by so many dear friends (many of them at least ten times smarter than I am) so get ready. I am looking forward to an insightful and blessed journey to a greater level of collective knowledge and understanding of the truth of the LORD on this most needed and misunderstood subject. 

Be in touch!

Samuel Martin

Jerusalem Israel

Contact me at: info@biblechild.com

Connect with me on Facebook at: www.facebook.com/byblechyld